Tune into another episode of Tech While You Trek to hear PwC Director Joe Lalley and Senior Manager David Ulonska talk about communicating, collaborating and learning while working remotely and the importance of using virtual collaboration tools.
Tune into another episode of Tech While You Trek to hear PwC Director Joe Lalley and Senior Manager David Ulonska talk about communicating, collaborating and learning while working remotely and the importance of using virtual collaboration tools.
Tech While You Trek: Tips for Working Remotely
Guests: Joe Lalley & David Ulonska
Adam (00:08):
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of PwC's Tech While You Trek. I am your host, Adam. And today I have with me Joe Lalley and David Ulonska to talk about collaborating, communicating, and learning while working remotely. Welcome, gentlemen.
Joe Lalley (00:22):
Great to be here.
David Ulonska (00:23):
Thanks for having us.
Adam (00:24):
Let's get started by having you tell us a little bit about yourselves, how long you've been with the company, et cetera, et cetera, please.
Joe Lalley (00:29):
Sure. Joe Lalley. Been with the firm for about six years. I'm an experienced design leader, which means I do a lot of projects where I end up designing and facilitating workshops to help people understand and solve problems.
David Ulonska (00:42):
Yeah, so I've been with the firm for nearly 25 years, focusing really on learning in the course of work and social learning through things like virtual communities.
Adam (00:50):
So let's dive right in then, gentlemen. What are some of the characteristics of remote versus in person?
Joe Lalley (00:56):
One of the things I like to say about remote versus in-person work is that it's not really a better or worse comparison. It's really just a different comparison. I think there are strengths to both ways of working. Now, of course, as most people or many people are working remotely, we've been forced into this method only. But even prior to that, there were times that I would recommend doing something in a remote setting, even if we could have done it in person, because I think there are some distinct advantages to those. One of the most exciting advantages to remote work is the type of anonymity that it can allow for in a meeting, a discussion, a workshop because I've seen it just unlock things that might not have been shared.
Adam (01:38):
Oh, now that's really interesting. So almost the positive effect of being able to "hide behind the screen."
Joe Lalley (01:44):
If you think about an in-person meeting where you may all be sitting around a table or in a room, there's so many social cues and social pressures that exist that I never thought of until I started to really think about the differences. So if maybe I'm in a meeting with my boss, and my boss shares something. And maybe I disagree with it. I may not really want to share that publicly, or maybe I want to agree just to move the meeting along. And there's just so many things about that social interaction that go away in a remote setting. In a remote setting, if you're using virtual collaboration tools and things like that, that allow for anonymity, then there aren't those moments to wait for to decide when to interject. You can interject at a level playing field and all at the same time, and it can be incredibly, incredibly powerful.
Adam (02:30):
So can we talk a little bit about the ways that COVID-19 has changed the way that remote work is done?
David Ulonska (02:36):
I think the obvious one is that there's more dependence on technology. We've had the technology for a little while, and we're seeing more of the tools available now to help us collaborate with each other and work remotely, even with clients. Things like virtual meetings, using video chat groups, even some of our community tools. But I think with that, there's a new focus on intentionality, so really finding those intentional ways to connect with, learn from those that we work with, and really just to try to take advantage of those tools for the positives.
Joe Lalley (03:08):
I think you have to either put intentional barriers between you and distractions or take advantage of tools that you can to minimize those. But one of the things I've seen, because remote work isn't a new thing. It's been something prior to the pandemic. But what I have seen as a major change in the way remote work is done now during the pandemic is that people in many cases have much less control of the work environment they sit within. So prior to COVID-19, I would do a remote workshop, and typically if people did have children, they were probably in school. And if somebody was working remotely, they probably had a space to do it within. But now what we've seen is that there's lots of people with children who are doing their schooling from home, and they're in the house. And they're stopping by and asking questions about the assignment they're working on in the middle of a discussion. And it just is what it is.
And then there are other people who maybe they have roommates and they're sharing a small space, or maybe they have family members nearby. It's just created this setting where people just don't have the control they used to, and I think it's important to acknowledge that and empathize with people in their environments.
Adam (04:15):
Well, and going back to something you kinda touched on earlier, Joe. There was remote working before the pandemic. This idea that people can't accomplish as much working remotely, that's a myth that I think you can debunk. Could you talk more about that?
Joe Lalley (04:29):
I've been amazed at the amount of work that teams can accomplish in a remote setting, and I think it's just about capitalizing on the strengths. So, for example, I was working with a team who was looking to redesign an experience that maybe their employees have. You can outline a lot of the different challenges and pain points that may exist with that current experience using virtual tools. You can collaborate through those virtual tools and sometimes much faster than you can in person. I heard a stat that you can think in something like 900 words per minute, but you can only speak in something like 125 words per minute. So if you elaborate on that and allow for a space where people can work virtually concurrently and all share their thoughts in some space at the same time, you just multiply the number of ideas and thoughts that get shared.
Adam (05:18):
Which leads me nicely into my next question. Can we talk a little bit about how learning on the job has been amplified through digital ways and maybe how this new remote way of working is helping to lead to that?
David Ulonska (05:29):
I like how you said that about amplified as well, because I think at PwC, we really intentionally try to be infinite learners. And what that really means is, especially in today's world, there can't be any limits on the where, the what, the when, how our people learn. Even recently before the pandemic, we were typically very comfortable with working side by side with our teams, maybe out at a client's site or in the office. And if we had a question or if wanted to collaborate with somebody on our team, we would simply just turn around to the person next to us. But now that we're actually not sitting side by side, again, it comes down to that intentionality. And so it's actually forced us, I think, in some ways to reach out even broader than within our team.
But now through those very same tools, we have access to even more people. And so I think it's really, to what you said, amplified it. It's expanded the way that we can connect with people, the way that we can get knowledge and information and share with each other in a way that maybe we might not have thought about doing previously.
Adam (06:36):
Well, so far, this has been a glowing review of working remotely, but let's talk about the other side. The risks, pitfalls. What are the things that have been discovered on the negative side?
Joe Lalley (06:44):
One of the things, I've experienced this, and I'm sure most people have, is just the blurred lines between what felt like work and what felt like personal lives, because your commute might be five feet now. I mean, mine is. So we start to feel like, "Well, I can always check my email. I can always check in." Or while you're working, maybe you're always checking in on personal things. So I've intentionally placed some friction between those things for myself. So I found an old phone in a drawer, and I have taken the phone I had and that phone, and I've separated personal communication tools and applications from work ones, so they don't exist on the same phone anymore. And if I'm done working for the day and I feel like I've accomplished what I wanted to, I'll take that work phone and I'll put it in that same drawer and take the other one out.
David Ulonska (07:31):
It just requires more personal discipline as well. And I think strategies, like the one you just shared about having separate phones, I think, is a good one. But I think the other thing is just the feeling of isolation. As good as the technology can be, I mean, if we can encourage each other to be on video to the extent possible, there is at least seeing other people, but there's just this sense of longing that many of us have to just physically be around other people as well. So I think that is certainly a pitfall or a drawback.
Adam (08:00):
Well, it's interesting. Joe, you were talking about creating your own boundaries against when you're working and when you're not working, but has there also been an experience of when this new medium has imposed other people's boundaries on you in a way that needed to be worked out or talked about or hasn't been necessarily a positive thing?
Joe Lalley (08:17):
I was leading a workshop, and one of the workshop participants had her children home with her. And we set the expectation up front. "We totally understand that your working environment is not totally in your control these days." I just said, "Hey, listen. This is how it is. Take some time if you need to. Go off camera if you need to." I just think we have to be a lot more vulnerable and accepting of people's situations, because all of a sudden, even in prior remote settings, somebody probably had a quiet space and maybe a decent background or something like that, but now you are experiencing multiple people's home lives all at once, and you have to design around it. One of the things we've done in a lot of our workshops is we actually build in moments where it's beneficial for housemates, whether they're children, roommates, family members, whoever, to participate. So if there's a quick break or a quick ideation exercise, we ask them, "Hey, if there's anyone nearby, invite them over and have them participate."
Adam (09:14):
So, David, you were talking earlier about community of practice. What are some tips you can share on how to create a successful community of practice, and what are some ways you've discovered that it can go wrong?
David Ulonska (09:24):
The first is really just to be clear on a purpose. This is not one of those kind of things where if you build it, people will come. They will come if they see value in it. They will come if there's a purpose to the community. They will come if when they arrive, they see that it's valuable to them and they can get something out of it. There needs to be somebody who can really manage that space, anything from access requests to making sure that the engagement experience is there for the members. How can you create connections between the members? A community forum is not necessarily just something that you're posting messages or communications to, but it really is a space to foster and facilitate members connecting with each other. So keeping that firmly in mind about where are those opportunities and how can you create that really good experience for the members that way. That's kinda the opposite to where I've seen it fail, and that is fully citizen led, where no one's really paying attention to the member experience and driving that engagement strategy.
The other thing is, I will say about ways that it can fail, is just if members fail to see the relevance. So we've got to keep on rechecking back with the members to see what it is that they need, what it is that they're looking for, and is there enough value being presented to them.
Adam (10:55):
So I've got a couple of light questions to get you gentlemen out of here on. What do you say?
Joe Lalley (10:59):
So ready.
David Ulonska (10:59):
Let's do it.
Adam (11:00):
What would the you of 20 years ago be most surprised that you of today are using from a technological standpoint?
David Ulonska (11:07):
I'm just so surprised by the number of things that are connected to the internet.
Adam (11:13):
Sure.
David Ulonska (11:14):
I would not have thought that my fridge needs to be connected to the internet. I don't know why my fridge would need to be connected to the internet, but the fact that it is tells me about where things are going.
Joe Lalley (11:23):
I'll go with so it still blows my mind now how much communication can be accomplished through memes and emojis and GIFs.
Adam (11:33):
Pictorial communication of a sort.
Joe Lalley (11:35):
Ah, the perfectly placed emoji is just, I mean, there's a thousand words there. And I don't know if I would have called that one 20 years ago when technology was starting to be a little bit more connected than it is today, but there you go.
Adam (11:49):
So then what household item have you come to rely on the most while working remotely?
David Ulonska (11:55):
This might be pretty boring, but it's my router, and you really miss it when it's not there. When the internet goes down, you are in the dark, and so I've definitely experienced that. It can be pretty catastrophic when you lose connection.
Joe Lalley (12:08):
So I've had to get pretty creative about my working environment since I've been home every day. So we recently went through a renovation and did not account for any sort of home working space for me, because I just didn't need it at the time. So I found an old table I used to use for barbecuing and a couple of cardboard boxes and this little art kit. And if you stack them all just perfectly, they make for a very nice standing desk. That's what I'm on right now.
Adam (12:34):
Well done. Well, when you get the makeshift treadmill to go with it, let me know. I'll come over and start doing my work from your place.
Joe Lalley (12:40):
That sounds dangerous, but I'm willing to try.
Adam (12:43):
Well, listen. Joe and David, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today.
David Ulonska (12:47):
You're welcome. Thank you.
Joe Lalley (12:48):
Yeah, this has been great. Thanks, Adam.
Adam (12:50):
This has been another episode of Tech While You Trek. I have been your host, Adam. Thank you for listening, and we will talk to you again next time.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
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Speaker 4 (13:21):
This podcast is for general information purposes only and should not be used as a substitute for consultation with professional advisors.